From: Barry Marks (barry_at_fbtc.net)
Date: Mon Apr 12 1999 - 16:38:09 EDT
Until I reached the point where you compared me to
a snake oil salesman, I felt that your posted
opinion was a little strong but well thought out
and there was basically nothing I could disagree
with. Although I don't feel that what I said was
wrong.
But from the snake oil part on, don't you think
you might have been overdoing it just a little? I
hope you do. I'll give you the benefit of the
doubt and try to give you what I think is a
reasonable answer.
First, the license on the package of disks that
you read (I don't but it seems you do) before you
break the seal is not considered to be valid in
courts according to a number of articles I've
read. It's the scare tactic used by software
publishers to try to prevent piracy. It might
even be effective. I don't know.
The reason it's not valid is that no contract can
be considered valid under the law if there is no
opportunity for negotiation. And there is none.
Your options are to accept, reject or ignore the
license. You can't say "Wait,
let's add this clause!". It's placed on a package
that you need and have already paid for and you
don't really have much option. Most of us can
choose which compiler or word processor we use but
we can't realistically choose not to use one.
That's why it doesn't stand up in court.
What does concern the courts is the question of
whether you've paid for the package or not. There
are valid laws covering the use of software you
haven't paid for.
I'm semi-retired now and I don't do much
development anymore. But I was a programmer,
systems programmer and systems analyst for 32
years and during part of that time I was paid from
the sales of sofware that I wrote. I understand
about the need for a programmer to be paid for his
work. But keeping the rules perfectly isnt the
same thing as being honest.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: David Goldman <dgoldman_at_best.com>
To: thinkpad_at_cs.utk.edu <thinkpad_at_cs.utk.edu>
Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Piracy
>At 03:31 PM 4/11/99 , Barry Marks wrote:
>>W95 OSR2 supports FAT32 and the original
doesn't.
>>The only way OSR2 was sold was as an OEM
version.
>>If it came on your computer in the last 2 or 3
>>years it would be OSR2. If you bought the W95
>>package in the store it's the original version.
>>
>>A way around this is to go to a small computer
>>store that will sell you an OEM version. A lot
of
>>them have them for sale for a fraction of the
>>package in the larger stores.
>>
>>This isn't allowed by the license but it's
>>commonly done and I personally can't see a thing
>>wrong with it. It's not piracy.
>
>Barry:
>
>I don't quite know what to say here. It depends
on your definition
>of the word "piracy" with regard to computer
software and licenses,
>but if selling something in direct violation of
the software license
>isn't piracy, it certainly can't be "100% OK"
either.
>
>You will find that when you purchased a new
machine with W95 OSR2
>pre-installed on it, *IF* you bother to read the
license information
>that you agreed to, the W95 isn't licensed to you
for your use in
>whatever way you think is alright. In fact, it
isn't licensed to you
>at all. The Windows 95 OSR2 (and probably all of
the other bundled
>software pre-installed on that system) is
licensed to that PHYSICAL
>HARDWARE SYSTEM! In other words, according to the
license that you
>agreed to when purchasing the system and not
returning it upon reading
>the license agreement, the (bundled) software may
only LEGALLY be used
>on that physical system. If you sell the system,
you may not keep the
>software for use on another system. Hell! Even if
you keep the system
>and remove all the bundled software from that
system, you may not
>legally install that software on another system.
>
>As far as buying a copy of the OEM W95 OSR2
software from a 'small
>computer store', that is in direct violation of
the dealer agreement
>they signed when they purchased the PC
hardware/software bundle and
>is against the license agreement that you agreed
to buy making the
>purchase! It really doesn't matter if the
practice is common or not.
>
>As one who makes his living by creating, selling
and supporting
>custom software, I have to say that whether or
not you can see
>anything wrong with doing something doesn't mean
squat in a court
>of law. What if you "personally can't see a thing
wrong" with
>selling narcotic drugs to eight year old kids or
killing people
>with a gun because they don't have the same color
skin or believe
>in a different religion? Does that mean it should
be legal? Hah!
>You have all the morals of a snake oil salesman,
Barry.
>
>It's time for you to either step up and be an
upstanding, moral
>person or to declare loudly "I'm a software
pirate and proud of
>it". The choice is yours, Berry. Are you planning
on raising kids
>and telling them "It's OK to sign contracts and
make promised that
>you don't intend to honor"? I can just see it
now... Barry purchases
>a brand new, $45,000 car and takes it back to the
dealer because of
>a defective transmission:
>
>Barry: Hi! I'd like the transmission on my new
car repaired under
> warranty. I've only got 300 miles on it,
but it burns a
> quart of transmission fluid every 50
miles.
>
>Dealer: Sure. I can see where you'd think that
we'd do something
> about that, but see, our owner doesn't
believe in honoring
> contracts and stuff. So we've chosen to
void your warranty
> 'cause (snicker, snicker) the owner
doesn't personally see
> anything wrong with that.
>
>Barry: Oh! (ha, ha) That's a good one. I guess
I'm just out of luck here.
> But I want you to know that I understand
completely. If you don't
> see anything wrong with not honoring your
promises then I guess
> I can't fault you for that. Here, let me
give you $1500 for the
> repair and by the way, my wife and son
each want appointments to
> come by and purchase new cars for
themselves. Is that ok?
>
>Barry, I have a suggestion for you. Either
grow-up and realize that what
>you are doing is harming somebody else or get off
this list and start to
>lurk in the *.warez newsgroups.
>
>P.S. If anybody feels that I'm out of line here,
just say the word. I'll
>be more than happy to unsubscribe and never
bother you again.
>
>
>--
>/================================================
=================\
>| David Goldman | My business
motto is: |
>| IVR_at_DGoldman.Com | Choose any two:
[ ] Fast |
>| |
[ ] Cheap |
>| Ask me for my PGP key. |
[ ] Right |
>\================================================
=================/
>
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