From: Alan King (Alan_at_nc.rr.com)
Date: Thu May 03 2001 - 19:42:44 EDT
Bill Morrow wrote:
>
> i can't keep my mouth shut any longer.. :-)
>
> warranty issues are complex.. i wont' go into it further than to say:
>
"Steve C." wrote:
> Yes it's true. At least that's what IBM told me. You
> are probably thinking about DESKTOP drives that have a
> 3 year warranty. Laptop drives are different.
I can think of 5 major categories off the top of my head, has as much
to do with how they were sold as what part they are:
1. Drive in a ThinkPad, covered as part of the TP's 3 year warranty.
They didn't lower the option's warranty to screw anyone, the drive's
gets
promoted because it's part of the Thinkpad. This extra warranty was
part of the Thinkpad, not the drive. And a replacement drive gets
either
remaining TP warranty or the option warranty, whichever was longer.
2. Drive as an Option. Options typically had 90 day or 1 year
warranties when I was there. Can't remember for sure which for drives.
3. Drive sold by an authorized reseller. Basically same as an
option, just through a different seller.
4. OEM drive. Not sure which contract IBM normally does, but these
are sold to a third party for use in their equipment as OEM. Normally
large quantities, and with an acceptable failure rate specified in the
contract. As soon as these are sold, they are the OEM's drives, they
are not IBM drives. They were simply manufactured by IBM. They have
only whatever warranty the OEM gives, they are 'their' drives. The cost
reduction for quantity and to cover extra drives for replacements are
built into the OEM contract. THEY bought X percentage extra to send out
as replacements for failures. Or didn't. They may get replacements or
compensation, but only if the failure rate exceeds what was in the
contract, IF that was contracted for. Can also be just X drives for X
dollars, here's what the MTBF is but no guarantees whatsoever to the
OEM. In either case IBM has no responsibility for replacing a defective
drive to the end user, that's the OEM's job.
5. Gray market. Typically OEM bought, then sold to surplus or other
unauthorized secondary channels. No warranty unless the seller gives
one, it's just an OEM drive once removed. IBM SHOULDN'T owe you
anything,
it wasn't paid for.
The OEM got PAID for dealing with the end user by getting a cut rate
on the drive. Or more correctly, IBM did NOT get paid to provide the
warranty for the OEM drives. If an end user then buys a drive through
one of these channels, that's their choice. They get the drive for less
money, but there's no warranty through IBM. These drives were supposed
to
be used internally, or in OEM items and warranteed by the OEM. They
weren't
supposed to end up as cheap drives on the open market.
Buy from one of these places that says they have a '3 year warranty'
and you could definitely make them eat a bad drive through false
advertising laws, if they're still around and if you make the effort.
Not sure it'd be worth that effort in most cases, but Pricewatch
shouldn't be allowing them to advertise it, unless things have changed
and IBM is warrantying them all for 3 years now. Kind of doubt it.
Western Digital will deal with end users, at least to the typically 3
year warranty date after the drive's manufacture. After that you need
proof of purchase date. It isn't better or worse than IBM's OEM policy,
just different. The OEM's just don't get quite as good a discount over
retail, so you can't find quite as good a deal vs retail as on the IBM,
even though it may still cost more due to differences in original MSRP.
The WD way is only better if your drive happens to be in the 2% or so
that fails in the warranty period. If your drive's in the other 98%
that doesn't, you were better off saving that extra little bit of money.
But you PAID for that 3 year WD warranty, somewhere along the line.
Or someone did.
IIRC, I think the tablet Thinkpads were the same way. We'd help
people out if reasonable and possible, but they weren't officially
supported or waranteed since they were ALL OEM computers. I may be off
a bit there now that I think about it, ah now I remember. They did get
support and service, just no support for Windows since it wasn't offered
and wasn't supported. And they couldn't get replacements for the pen
software just for having the Thinkpad, it was a seperate license and not
included with the computer. Other systems you could just give them the
preload if the drive went or was corrupted, the software came with the
system..
>That's not exactly my experience
>You can check warranty status on the Storage Web Site
>If it shows as being under warranty (the OEM marked ones
>will NOT), you can do an RMA on line and they WILL
>replace the drive. Have done so several times on drives
>that came from ????
Exactly, if the drive was bought with a warranty it has one. For that
matter, no doubt an OEM could buy large numbers as an option instead of
buying OEM drives. They'd get the quantity discount, but they wouldn't
get the cut rate OEM price with the percentage failure built in. And
they would have the warranty, it was paid for. But if they did this,
then started reselling them without being an authorized reseller, they
tended to get excommunicated by IBM, if IBM found where they were coming
from. But they still have to sell to stay in business, so no doubt some
large customers can get away with it even if IBM doesn't like it.
>perhaps this is why some thinkpads have hitachi drives in them..
You bet, even back when I was there, lots of them had Maxtor drives
inside. But IBM was the capacity leader, so all the largest drive sizes
were IBM. Maxtor drives got the same 3 year warranty through IBM, they
were part of the thinkpad. And IBM probably got a deal, since they were
providing the warranty service in almost all cases. But Maxtor would
still replace drives directly for the occaisional one that later was
seperated, and you can bet there was a tiny x% extra figured in even in
IBM's price. Else Maxtor could lose money. You can bet it was in the
profit margin somewhere, or they'd suffer and possibly go out of
business. You simply don't get warranty without paying for it somewhere
along the line. Even if it's 'your own d*** self' replacement warranty,
and you save money on the purchases but have to buy the rare replacement
drive yourself. You pay now and gamble you're going to have a bad drive
and use that cost, or you pay later and gamble you won't. But you have
to pay. Warranty is just distributed insurance, with the premium paid
in the purchase price.
Still all in all I kind of wish IBM did just warranty everything for a
set time and figure in the cost, it's a lot simpler. Only problem is
there'd always be some large company wanting 50k drives without the
warranty cost and do it themselves within their IT department, which
makes a lot of sense at those quantities. Just like delivering pizzas
as a business like Domino's is very different than how you'd perceive it
just driving to pick up your 1 pizza, the way IBM has to deal with it as
a business is very different than how you'd think dealing with your 1 or
a few (or even a few hundred) Thinkpads. There are companies that order
20,000 an 40,000 computers at a time, and IBM has to have a system that
can deal with that too, as well as just your one. So their system may
not operate like you'd think it should for just any one case. It can't,
it has to work in a general way that can cope with you AND the large
groups.
This isn't every issue, some of it may be a bit off now, just intended
to give an idea that there's a lot more to it than at first glance.
Just because it doesn't operate like people might expect it to
(expectation provided by WD and Maxtor mainly), doesn't mean it's wrong
or worse, just that it doesn't operate the same.
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