From: Bill Morrow (penzance_at_gate.net)
Date: Tue Oct 15 2002 - 13:13:38 EDT
a thought on a "contract" or an "agreement"..
if the terms are presented on a take it or leave it basis, is this really an
"agreement"..?
i don't think so..
and "agreement" is something arrived at between two parties negotiating
terms and mutually agreeing to some or all of the terms..
also, there is probably a severability clause which will go something like
this:
"If any term, condition, covenant, or provision of this Agreement is held to
be invalid or unenforceable, either in itself or as to any particular party,
then the remainder of the Agreement, or the applicability of such provision
to other parties, will continue in validity and force; except, if
thereafter, as to any other individual provision of its applicability to any
particular party it would be inequitable and inconsistent with the purposes
of the Agreement to so continue, then only as to such first and secondary
provisions or parties will the Agreement be invalid or unenforceable."
they call this a severability clause and what all that verbiage means is
that if part of the agreement <g> is unenforceable due to local law or the
like then the rest of the agreement remains in force..
unless microsoft forces each mfg. to pay for a license regardless then you
can get it without the license and not pay that portion attributable to the
license cost..
this is what the lawsuit was all about (well , this and more)..
M$ FORCING vendors to take and pay for an unused windows license for each
cpu regardless if the OS shipped or not..
<------------------------------->
Cordially, :-)
Bill Morrow
WEB page http://thinkpads.com
thinkpads.com Open Forum
http://www.afaonline.com:8080/webboard/$webb.exe/~2/login?
or go to thinkpads.com and link from there
E-Mail: bill at thinkpads dot com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Trottier" <Tom_at_Abacurial.com>
To: <thinkpad_at_cs.utk.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: buying a thinkpad without microsoft
> The whole question of shrink wrap licenses is iffy.
> See http://www.google.ca/search?q=court+shrink.wrap.license
>
> Canada: see
> http://www.smithlyons.ca/practiceareas/InformationTechnology/Publication
> s/IT_98_05_1.htm
> which mentions that some conditions may REQUIRE a signed written
> contract if the license terms are to be enforceable. Consumer law may
> require a written contract if the sale is over a certain amount, or if
> the article is to be delivered later than the money is paid. No written
> contract with both signatures, no enforceability of terms.
>
> US: see http://www.nesl.edu/lawrev/vol32/vol32-2/MORRILL.HTM
> I recall a recent decision (in Oregon?) which allowed resale of shrink-
> wrap software. US Copyright law allows reselling, after the "first
> sale." Software vendors may be shooting themselves in the foot by both
> copyrighting and licensing software.
>
> tOM
>
> On Sunday, October 13, 2002 at 16:12, Peter Machule
> <pmachule_at_hotmail.com>
> wrote re "Re: buying a thinkpad without microsoft" saying:
>
> > NO NO and NO
> > ;-}
> >
> > Sad but under the EULA the software MUST stay with the machine .
> > you are NOT allowed to sell it .
> > You can in Germany; Mikeysoft sued some reseller and Lost .
> > LOL
> > BUT in the USA you can not resell it .
> > If you try ..and Mikeysoft finds out ..
> > ie via ebay ...you get a nasty letter from their legal dpt.
> > Also Ebay will simply pull your offer.
> >
> >
> > Yes you could sell it to a friend who has T30 or something similar
..and no
> > one would be the wiser .
> > ( It would most likely have to be a t30 or similar since this OEM
version is
> > likely BIOS locked .
> >
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/11866.html
> >
> > ..peter..
> > PS we hashed this a couple of months ago
> > search for :
> > Microsoft to get cranky?
> > 5/04/2002
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Ryan" <mike94109_at_yahoo.com>
> > To: "Steve C." <stevec50_at_yahoo.com>; "ThinkPad Mail List"
> > <thinkpad_at_cs.utk.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 12:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: buying a thinkpad without microsoft
> >
> >
> > > Oh but a license and registration does exist and is
> > > found on the bottom of your ThinkPad. Remove it, send
> > > it back with your request a WindowsX refund. By law
> > > that sticker is your proof of purchase and your right
> > > to use WinX legally. Caught running WinX without it
> > > and you are running an illegal copy. Caught selling
> > > copies without the license/registration sticker and
> > > you can face criminal charges.
> > >
> > > Even tho' my T30 came with WinXP, a product I don't
> > > want and refuse to use (and have never registered
> > > through Microsoft), I can sell my copy of WinXP by
> > > removing and providing the bottom license sticker and
> > > the IBM WinXP Restore CDs to any potential buyer. I
> > > could include a signed letter of ownership transfer.
> > > The IBM WinXP would be good on any other T30 - and
> > > helpful to any T30 owner who purchased their Thinkpad
> > > with Win2000 and wanted WinXP. Note: because it is
> > > optimized for the T30 I don't know how or what results
> > > it would provide on anything but another T30.
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Mike
>
> ------- Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur -----------------
> ,__@ tOM A. Trottier +1 613 860-6633 fax:231-6115
> _-\_<, 758 Albert St.,Ottawa ON Canada K1R 7V8
> (*)/'(*) ICQ:57647974 N45.412 W75.714
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Laws are the spider's webs which,
> if anything small falls into them they ensnare it,
> but large things break through and escape.
> --Anacharsis, Scythia (~600 BCE)
>
>
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